Tag: Tim LeGendre

Historical Fun: Inventor of the 450BM Before BM Stepped In

If you shoot the .450 Bushmaster you must know Tim LeGendre. Mr. LeGendre runs LeMag Firearms, LLC and he invented the 45 Professional which is the precursor to the .450 Bushmaster. The 45 Professional is basically a longer .450 Bushmaster running at much higher PSI.

The man is a legend. He has been hotrodding firearms for longer than most of us have been alive. Magnumizing the AR15 with the 45 Professional cum .450 Bushmaster is consistent with his modus operandi. He’s put .50AE in M1 Carbine and the .338 Win Mag in M1 Garand.

Here is a thread from PerfectUnionBBS that details his (or someone afiliated with him) marketing the 45 Professional to a gun dealer. Just a bit of nostalgia that gives some background to our favorite cartridge (we are copy pasting the entire thread in case PerfectUnionBBS goes kaput):

Link to Source

Met a salesman today for a company called LeMag Firearms LLC. He was showing the local shopowner an AR rebarreled and chambered for a cartridge called the .45 Professional. Round is made from .284 Winchester brass & puts a 230 gr. bullet downrange “at 3000+ FPS”. Winchester is to provide brass and LeMag will load in a 230 gr. truncated cone (flat point)FMJ & a 230 gr. Hollowpoint. Uses standard AR mags. Sales guy says they have been demoing to the Army at Benning and Knox.

Anyone interested can contact LeMag at 248-634-1312. I am not associated with this company.

Don

DaMan
08-01-2000, 22:44
Don
05-24-2000, 17:58
Well gentlemen the Weapon is now known as the .450 Bushmaster. Not the .45 professional. I’ve known Tim for about 7 years now. If he says he can do it, I believe he can. The best explanation I can give for it, and be fair is that he has developed a hot load, and replaced some of the firearms components with a higher strength material to hold up to the excessive chamber pressure. Resulting in the finished product you were refering to. As for bullet drop, I like to think that I can throw a stone with less of an arc than this one has, But it is consistent which is what really matters. At least on this project. I hope that this helped explain a few questions you were having here.
10-18-2007, 03:23
Checkmate
All of the weapons chambered for the .45 professional have new barrels according to the rep.

Just looked thrpugh my Speer No. 10 manual (yeah I know its old but its handy). To my knowledge no one makes a .451″ pointed projectile. Would probably have to be a custom.
No from all my “research” no one makes a low drag/high coefficient .451 projectile. Let alone one within 200 to 250 grain. This would have to be constructed from scratch. But I believe that such a combo: 3000 fps and extreme low drag would give 338 Laupa ballistics plus the added caliber-diam increase. Using pure copper on a micro-lathe might be the answer? It would take some R&D to get the exact projectile. But an AR-10 converted to 45 Professional (or 45 ProLong..my own pet name) would allow for a match rifle to be effective out to 1200 to 1500 meters? And think of the GPMG chambered for such? Half way between 7.62 and 50BMG ballistics. As soon as I get further allow with this project. I will let everyone know.Anyone interested feel free to email me
-JWY

Just heard from Johnny Rowland. He claims 1,900fps from the MechTech carbine with a 185gr. pill! And I think this is HOT HOT HOT!

I don’t think 3,000 plus fps is possible with a 230gr. bullet!

Don, do you have the physical address or website address of LeMag? I’d like to hear their story …. and THEN call them LIARS!

Sorry, not trying to “kill the messenger”! I’ve heard this same claim made by LeMag! Don’t believe it!

Regards! DaMan

[This message has been edited by DaMan (edited 08-03-2000).]

05-24-2000, 21:05

Erick
There is a whole article on this company, showing the .45 Pro cartridges in comparison to .223 and displays LeMag’s other conversions in the Guns & Ammo 2000 Annual, pages 44-47 (which probably appeared at one time in a regular monthly issue.) The main guy is Tim LeGendre. There is even a statement about his conversation with Eugene Stoner as Stoner denied that this (the .45 Professional round) could ever be done, but LeGendre did it! Also includes a cool brief about an M1 Carbine converted to .45 Win. Mag. and .50 A&E, among other conversions (M14 in .338). Check it out; very cool.

Don
05-24-2000, 22:03
He can also do the .45 Professional in the Ruger Mini 14 which I forgot to mention, probably because I wouldn’t be caught with one <G>.

WILSON
05-26-2000, 18:32
<<puts a 230 gr. bullet downrange “at 3000+ FPS>> http://perfectunion.com/ubb/wink.gif Are these numbers right? That’d be a pretty impressive cartridge! R

Don
05-26-2000, 19:22
The lit sheet he gave me says 3000+fps and that is the number he gave me verbally.

Erick
05-26-2000, 19:26
Though I like the simplicity and ruggedness of a Mini-14 or Mini-30, I don’t think I would trust the integrity of a Mini-14 barrel bored out to .45. Unless he has replaced the barrel with his own fabrication, it must have a really thin wall. (I also wouldn’t trust the M1 carbine in .50 A&E for the same reason). I would like to see him build a .45 Pro Sniper-Tactical bolt action, with a more pointed bullet tip. It would not only be easier to create than the semi’s, but it would be more practical for frequesnt use. The accuracy (because of the weight and speed) would be oustanding!

Don
05-27-2000, 07:38
All of the weapons chambered for the .45 professional have new barrels according to the rep.

Just looked thrpugh my Speer No. 10 manual (yeah I know its old but its handy). To my knowledge no one makes a .451″ pointed projectile. Would probably have to be a custom.


DaMan
07-31-2000, 20:28
Don, this is impossible! A 230gr. .45 bullet at 3,000 fps from an AR? This cartridge is based on a shortened .284 Win. A .284 Win. can’t even propel a standard .284″ 170gr. bullet at much more than 2,600fps! How the heck are you going to shorten the case, insert a .45 cal bullet of 230gr., and get 3,000fps????!!

I’ve heard Johnny Rowland advertise his .460 Rowland carbine as having the ability to shoot a 230gr. bullet at “half of 3,000 fps”. Talk about WEASELLY WORDING!

These .45 cal “Super ARs” will throw a 230gr. at about 1,500fps. I don’t know if you could even propel a 230gr. slug to 3,000fps in a case like the .458 Win. mag!

Regards! DaMan

[This message has been edited by DaMan (edited 07-31-2000).]


Don
07-31-2000, 20:59
I never said I could launch a projectile that fast. Just reporting what the LeMag flyer and the salesman said. Contact Lemag for the answers.

Sorry, but that’s the best answer I can give you.

Don



Ridge Runner
04-05-2001, 10:36
go to www.tromix (’http://”http://www.tromix”‘) and see what an AR is capable of, look into the .458 SOCOM, mine is on order
RR

Flak 2
04-29-2001, 19:15
Ridge Runner Tony over there makes some serious stuff I,ll bet that 458 socom will let ya know when ya pull the trigger. Its a good thing Tony makes some nice brakes also LOL.

Kaliburz
11-23-2001, 11:36
For some reason, this company sounds really familiar. I recall reading about something very close to this a few years back, but I didn’t note if there was a web site. Not sure if I have the mag somewhere in this hole……..

Sniper
03-02-2002, 06:09
www.teppojutsu.com (http://www.teppojutsu.com) has an impressive article about rechambering an AR-15.

:sniper:


john humphries
03-02-2002, 06:20
I am loading MAX loads for my 45-70 Guide gun and only getting 2100 fps out of it. A 284 case is way too small to get 3000 fps. as a matter of fact the .458 case might be too small.:confused:

Kaliburz
03-02-2002, 12:31
Yup, tromix is out of bizz…….:(

http://www.teppojutsu.com/ is said to have taken over the 458 Socom that Tromix started….:P


Ridge Runner
03-04-2002, 01:48
Yep, Tony got behind on living running tromix so he shut it down
Marty Weems (s) is the designer of the cartridge, Tont thought they were cool so he had a liscense to build them (copyright). They are awesome!
RR

Kaliburz
03-04-2002, 12:51
Well, the April 2002 issue of Gun World has a nice story about the .458 Socom. It covers it’s historical development, brass sources, dies and loaded ammo. Also lists Tromix as a contact still…. must have been done a few months back to make this issue….. things have changed.

I’m figuring that there will be some inquiries about the .458 Socom after this.

It’s hard to ‘live’ when one is running a business….. I’m in agriculture (apples…..market sucks right now for us growers). I ended up getting part time job just to get some ’spending’ cash. Still young and dumb….. figure I got a little time….:rolleyes:


JeffreyWarren
02-27-2006, 17:02
I have read a few articles on various custom conversions done by LeMAG Industries: Including an in depth article on their 45 Professional conversions for AR-15s. The rifle had an 18″ barrel and was chronographed with a 230 grain .451 (45acp) projectile at 2950 fps. This is very impressive ballistics. This is on my “to buy-have built” list. After I get my Barrett Light 50, and Shrike belt and magazine semi auto “SAW” AR conversion unit. Once those two new “toys” are paid for. Then I will get a 45 Proessional…so around 2010 or so.

JeffreyWarren
04-04-2006, 02:09

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