I just came from the range. Drilling works! Drill here! Drill often! Wildcater is right, Keep the 284 cases @ 1.7 to 1.69! Had a few light primer strikes @ 1.68. Used a 29/64ths bit. Drill to .20 deep for my .4515 230grn Sierra’s.#8815. Giving me a 2.15 OAL. I would not drill any more then needed. It does anneal the case. medium crimp, no bullet jump, chambered and ejected maually just fine. 40grn of LIL Gun worked. but, 41 worked better with a tighter group. primers even looked lighter! go figure. beyond me! next, find out what 42-45grns looks like. Can anyone run these loads for me? 230grn FMJ, 42-45grns of Lil gun, CCI #34 primers. Thanks for all the help guy’s!!! This brings back the day’s of Hot Roding the small block Chevy!
Drilling cases isn’t an accepted practice… please don’t try this at home; full power loads could be dangerous.
Wildcatter and several members here have given you some good info if you read through the thread. Be careful, and approach experiments with respect for your safety and the safety of others. Be aware that what you post here may be misused by someone without the experience and understanding to duplicate your results safely.
Thanks Boomer! I should have put that disclaimer in myself! I have destroyed 60 cases trying to make this work. Drilling works if you are careful. BUT, Reaming works much better! Got a .452 reamer from forster and had the shaft turned to fit the cutting head on my power trimmer with excellent results. Nice even ledge at the seating depth all the way around. My guess is the next problem will be crimping, Which we have talked about here with several methods available….Please Don’t try this case thing unless you have been reloading for awhile. Thanks Again All!
I’d like to say right spot on, for the last two post. Thanks Boomer and Gun Nut. I myself would not ream cases without some sort of drill Jig to hold the reamer dead center of the case center line. I did described one type, using a FL 284 Sizer Die, there are many others… Gun Nut? What’s your thought about leaving the case alone and resizing the bullets instead. A Lee, Luber-Sizer cost less than $40 and Ebay or Guns America, etc., and might find them for considerably less. Wouldn’t this much less work? Just wondering what you may be thinking.. And as for speculation about the kill bullet, I think that Wildman Wildcatter is using Dilithium Crystals..wink
It’s good you understand the terminal ballistics between bullet types, especially in this High Performance Cartridge. You are miles ahead of some so called experts. There was a highly regarded genius on another board who used a 50b, which primarily uses bullets designed for the 50AE, on a deer this year and posted his shocking pictures, with a pathetic story, that was picked up by PETA, who for a time used him as their Poster-Boy. Needless to say he horribly blew up (nearly off) the shoulder. The deer got away and was later dispatched by another with a 7mm Mag. Our hero thought the bullet just fell out, he had no understanding of what actually happened. A pistol bullet designed to expand on soft targets at range and say maybe 300fps, will blow up into thousands of little specks on big game at 1800fps+, with no penetration into the boiler room. To be sure the same thing can happen with the 450b, so choose bullets that will accomplish your mission properly. The opposite can also happen, bullets that are designed for thick skinned big heavy game and rifle velocities, will not expand at all on thin skinned deer, and are inappropriate for home defense, it is not wise to use some types .458 bullets that will take out elephants or Planes Buffalo on deer or other targets that may need an expanded bullet or no penetration at all. Which is why I say the 450 Bushmaster is the most versatile, AR-Big Bore on the market. Use pistol bullets when zero penetration is needed, like 180gr-230gr hollow points, which will not penetrate a common house wall reliably, sure don’t want to kill the neighbor’s dog now. Choose fmj’s when penetration is needed and Flat Point FMJ’s when penetration and tissue disruption is most desirable. As a note here, the FP’s disrupts more tissue than an expanded bullet does after it expands and the FMJ-FP penetrates any animal on this planet, killing elephants, Cape Buffalo or deer with equal ease. Keep in mind that 230gr fmj round ball bullets work well in big game too. Think of it this way, though that bullet won’t really expand, 45 cal is already bigger than a 30 cal gets after it expands, so shoot’em if ya got’em! If bigger heavier bullets are desirable, then buy them, they are available or get a Lee lube-sizer die set-up (about $30) and shrink down .458 bullets, we’re only taking them down .003” per side, two and a half times less than a standard human hair. I’ll take a soft lead lubed .458 bullet and use it to lube the die for every 5-10 jacketed bullets or use some Cast Performance .458/500gr bullets to lube that die and then you’ll have some really heavy bullets for plinking in your 450b, not necessary but fun and maybe quite useful. I often use 350gr .458 Hornady bullets, for fun, and do not experience any jacket separation at all in our hydro test or on the reported Buffalo that have been killed with this set up. In other words, it is possible to use .458 bullets in a .451 barrel, but 451-452 bullets in a .458 just does not work well, if hitting the target is the goal.
I can fill volumes with things I’ve been told and I do not know about the 454C problems you discuss (a call Causal might be helpful), but with no forcing cone on an AR and now millions of rounds of fmj’s through the 450b, I’d have less the zero worries about using the fmj’s in the 450b, in fact I recommend them for many applications. However, as stated above, using them in a 458 SOCOM will not work so well, bullet wobble down the barrel is the problem here.
Trim length is 1.700” plus .000”, minus .003”
Concerning your proposed 240gr/1680 starting load, Slash’s last load was 45gr of 296/H110- (their data is interchangeable) with a 240gr bullet, as I remember, as 1680 is going to lower the pressures for the same charge and extending the OAL to 2.250” will also drop the pressures and as 296 and 1680 have the same specific gravity, I’d start at 45gr of 1680 and work up, looking for pressure signs all along and stopping when necessary. But here’s a novel idea. I always like to know the max amount of powder the case is going to take when a compressed load is used, when developing a new load. I sacrifice a single case by drilling a 3/16 hole through the primer pocket. Then seat the desired bullet to the OAL of your dreams. Now, fill the cartridge through the new flash hole, make the powder flush with the base. Plugging the flash hole with your thumb and holding the bullet with your fore finger and pointing the case down, tap the cartridge with a kitchen spoon, many times. When you remove your thumb you’ll see the powder level has gone down. Refill again and repeat the process many times. The last time make sure the powder is again level with the base, now weigh this charge, this represents a slightly compressed load and should be the max the case can hold, with your chosen bullet. With some powders this will be of course way to much powder, but with the slower powders you may well get to this number in your developmental process. I hope I painted the correct picture here. I do this all the time, and as I’m not standing next to you, all bets are off, be careful. But here’s the goal, I wouldn’t by a Corvette to drive 25MPH, if there is performance to get I want it, but of course driving 200MPH has it’s dangers and so does handloading, be careful. One other warning, all powders, but most assuredly ball powders do have high pressure problems if undercharged…t
Keep the OAL’s as long as possible. The magazine will handle 2.260”, so with room for dirt and such, make the max OAL 2.250”, which will easily be achieved with the longer bullets, like with the pointed Barnes 275gr. and many others. Keeping the OAL at max length will lower pressures allowing you to increase powder volume, just don’t get crazy. The loads I’ve seen here for the 275’s are somewhat light, you should be able to up the speeds “at least” 200fps plus quite easily, try AA1680 to do so, which will also lower pressures, compared to H110/WW296 ( which work well for the lighter bullets-btw, the data for these two powders are interchangeable).
If you want to recover real world expanded bullets, use one gallon milk jugs, filled with water. I get mine from a milk bottler, for something in the $.015 area, in bags of 50. Attach three 2X6’s in a “U” fashion and line the jugs up. The 1911 with 45acp Federal Hydro-Shock expands as advertised and eats up four jugs. A 230gr hollow point (450b @2800fps) barely does one jug and explodes into thousands of little pieces, good for home defense. All bullets and pieces are very recoverable and comparable to whatever standard you want to use, let’s say you want to compare your load to a 45-70 or 338mag or whatever, go ahead, shoot them into the jugs, you will be totally surprised at the results.
100 yds. I found that useing a filler wad ( my wifes quilters polyester batting cut into 1/2″ x 2″ strips and rolled up)inserted between the bullet and powder to hold the powder against the primer. This reduced my max speed deviation to under 50 ft/s with the H110. I am also loading 230 gr. Magteck FMJs with the same good results. these are seated to 2.070″ OAL.
Great information Wildcatter! I was beginning to think the 450B wasn’t such good choice for a relative newbee to reloading such as myself, but now I can see that this gun might be worth sticking with!
I’m still not sure I want to keep messing with the 284 cases, of the 200 I started out with I’ve only got about 60 left that I haven’t screwed up in one way or the other. I initially bough 200 rounds of factory ammo, of which I’ve fired about 150 and repeatedly reloaded, I think I’ll stick with them.
I still have a bunch of questions related to loading these things, regardless of the case, that I hope you might be willing to help with without giving away the keys to the castle, I’d like it handed to me on silver plater, but I’m new and I realize I still have to earn my spurs.
I’ve got about 150 Hornady 240 gr XTP/MAG Bullets. If I seat them to an OAL of 2.2″ I only have .166″ of bullet in the case. Is that okay?
I also have a butt load of Hornady and Zero 230 gr hollow points that I load for my 1911, it sounds like these hollow point pistol bullets should stay in the 1911 and I should invest in FMJ’s for the higher velocities of the 450B.
For powder I’ve got 4lbs of H110 and 1lb if IMR4227, am I barking up the wrong tree? My goal is two basic loads, a range round for punching holes in targets out to 200 yrds and a hunting round for punching holes in pigs. The H110 @ 38 grs has given me velocities around 2100 using the 240 and 230 gr bullets, but the accuracy sucks, I figure I can afford to play with those as target loads because they are relatively cheap, but I want to use Barnes X 250 gr 454 Casull or Barnes X 275 gr 460 S&W for hunting pigs and they are pricey bullets to be experimenting with. I’m hoping this is where you can save me some grief, will the 110 or the 4227 work or should I not bother playing with them? With the very long 275 gr barnes X the case is pretty much packed with 38 grs of H110 and an OAL of 2.225″. Can I get there from here?
I apprieciate the help, too bad you don’t live down the street!